Silicone Rubber test results and comparison
I’ve been working for about 6 months on finding a suitable silicone rubber material to use when making the keys for my beatseqr project. I started on this journey right after I’d set up my blacktoe cnc router. I knew I wanted a clear rubbery material to put in between the LED Tact switches on my circuit board for the user to push. This is a pretty well understood paradigm, so I figured there had to be a low-volume, relatively low-cost way to at least do some research into the feasibility of being able to do this. Of course you never know everything you need to know when you just start stabbing wildly at solving a problem that doesn’t have an obvious solution. So, below is a small sampling of the attempts I’ve made.
When I started, I thought I knew what I needed. A clear silicone rubber. Right? Should be easy to find. I didn’t really know what exactly to look for, but then I saw that TAP had one! I drove on down to one of my local TAP stores and was a little sticker shocked at the price. Oh well, one credit card swipe later, I was ready to test it out. The product is really simple to use. It’s a 1:1 mix ratio, so you pour parts A and B in equal amounts, mix it all up, and start pouring it into your mold. It’s super runny before it cures so it pours easily.
Once I had tested it out, I realized that there was a critical third qualifying attribute to the silicone that would ultimately win the day: hardness. Smooth-on has an excellent FAQ posted about this topic. It explains everything you need to know and has a printable visual aid. Ok, so with that new knowledge, I can see that this TAP silicone has a Shore hardness of A8, which explains why it feels like floppy gelatin. I’m going for a push button with some give, without being squishy. So this silicone was not going to work. (It did, however, come back later as an excellent mold making material, its intended use anyway.)
So while we were showing Beatseqr at the Bay Area Maker Faire 2010, I was able to locate the Smooth-on booth and discovered a couple of clear silicone rubbers that were MUCH firmer than the silicone I’d tried. Sorta clear 40, and Dragonskin 30. (Note that those product pages contain more than one shore hardness in the same product line!) I figured I’d go with the firmest one they sold, so I located a local dealer and bought a quart sized trial kit of Sorta clear 40. As you can see from the photo above, the optical properties are excellent with this product. However, after running a couple of test castings with this product, I discovered a fourth critical qualifying property that I’d need to consider: viscosity.
Sorta clear 40 is an excellent material. I really like it. It does, however, trap air bubbles… permanently, if you don’t do something about it. That something you can do is called “degassing”. Degassing essentially means that you use a vacuum chamber to forcibly remove trapped gasses, usually air, but sometimes other gasses depending on what you’re working with. Well, I didn’t have a degassing vacuum chamber, and the ones that I found when searching for them seemed to cost multiple hundreds of dollars on the low end, and thousands on the high end. Definitely not within my budget for this test.
I found an article explaining how to build one, so I did that. I’ll save the explanation for another post, but I managed to cut the price down from $800 down to about US$250. I’ve always been interested in different materials, and I knew I could use this degassing chamber for other stuff later, so I justified the cost and assembled the parts.
The viscosity of sorta clear 40 is pretty high, meaning, it does not pour like water. More like honey. Or taffy. The way you combine the 10:1 mix ratio parts is to open the canister of the part A liquid and scoop out 10 parts into a cup on a scale, and then add drops of part B to the mix until you reach the 10:1 ratio. I say “scoop” because the part A liquid is barely a liquid. If you hold the container upside down, it does not pour out. It’s perfectly happy to stay there without pouring at all. When you mix parts A and B together, it does become a somewhat pourable liquid, but before you get there, you have to stir stir stir for 3 minutes to get it fully mixed. Then the material has a bazillion air bubbles in it. So off to the degassing chamber it goes for several minutes, all while the “pot life” is ticking away. Pot life, meaning that you have a certain number of minutes after you combine the parts before they start to cure and solidify, so you need to work pretty quickly to get everything done once you start the process. So, out of the degassing chamber, and into the casting mold, quick!
above, you can see the worst case scenario of rushing to get the silicone into the casting mold, and not being thorough about making sure all of the cavities are filled and big air bubbles are out. Not only does this produce an unusable finished product, it wastes time and money.
Above is a test I ran to mix, degas, pour, and then degas in the mold. It sorta worked. Small bubbles were reduced significantly, but big bubbles formed and by the time the silicone started setting up, they were trapped forever.
Above is another test I ran in a similar fashion. I got pretty good clarity by working faster and leaving more time for the silicone to sit in an uncured state in the mold, but while working feverishly to make sure all big bubbles were eliminated, I overworked the material past the pot life, and so the back of the flange is mottled and uneven. This might be usable, but seems like waaaay too much work to get it right every time.
Originally, the first beatseqrs had acrylic bar stock cut into rectangular shapes and hand sanded to be used as the button interface. The look and feel was pretty good, but the amount of work it took was too much for any kind of mass production, so I thought I’d try a casting acrylic to get the same/similar results without having to do so much hand work finishing. For all of the silicone castings, I am using machinable wax as the negative casting mold. Casting soft rubbery materials into a hard mold is fine, but… you can’t do that for rigid materials. So I made a “master positive” casting out of the TAP silicone, and then a silicone negative from that master positive. Actually, i did two. the first time, I didn’t adequately spray down the master positive with release, and silicone loves being cast on top of silicone, so I adequately destroyed the first silicone negative mold that I needed to do it again. The second silicone negative worked fine, and I was able to do the above casting in the casting acrylic I found at Michael’s.
Ok, BUT … when I went to do the acrylic casting, I discovered the downside to this material immediately. It basically smelled like a chemical factory took a crap, exploded, and died. And it stayed like that for upwards of 3 weeks. I asked a guy from Smooth-on about that and he said it sounded like it was a polyester casting material. Ok, so as pretty as it looks, I will definitely avoid using that again. The jury’s still out on rigid keys… Smooth-on has a material I may run some tests with, but maybe later if some customers dislike the silicone keys. So far, that hasn’t happened too much.
I had these silicone negative molds, and started looking around my garage. I noticed how nice and translucent hot melt glue sticks are. After I realized that silicone would more than withstand the heat, I did a test and got some interesting results. Maybe this is a good fast casting material in some cases. It’s relatively cheap and easy to work with. But… really… not what I was going for.
Enter the dragon. Smooth-on Dragonskin 30, to be precise. While at World Maker Faire 2010 in NYC, I got a great recommendation to try dragonskin 30. It seemed to have the right properties for this need:
1. translucent. Not transparent like sortaclear 40, but early tests indicate that LED light transmission is pretty good, which is what I want.
2. shore hardness A30, which is pretty firm. Not quite as much as sortaclear 40, but firm enough.
3. 1:1 mix ratio, so easy peasy mixing.
4. low viscosity, easy pouring. Less trapped air bubbles, should be easier to degas.
5. good working time and self leveling. Here, take another look:
The flange is super smooth. That lets it sit perfectly flat on the LED Tact buttons so they they’re all seated evenly. There are some air bubbles trapped in the casting, but that’s because I didn’t bother degassing the early tests. I’m confident that if I need to get more clarity in the final castings, degassing will go well because this silicone is so much less viscous than sortaclear 40.
Full castings in the mold cavities. Awesome. Minimal hand-working to get it to that state. Since the material pours much more easily, it doesn’t need much coercion to fill all the nooks. I declare a winner! Dragonskin 30.
There are a few loose ends to tie up on this story, so maybe when I complete all of the research I want to do on this process, I’ll post up the results. I’m hopeful my market for beatseqr is just starting, and I’ll need to keep refining my products to meet demand. If that happens, I will have more to post.
UPDATE … it occurred to me that you might be interested in see what the casting mold looked like (or, one similar to the current one I’m using) and how the casting mold looks when it’s filled, and how the casting looks as it’s coming out of the mold, so here you go!
UPDATE 2: just a reminder to never leave your CNC program running unattended. I stepped away for one minute right at the end of this run, and KABLAM… ruined casting mold. I was lucky it was just wax!
















Jono!:
This is a great post. Publishing your trials and tribulations through this project will undoubtedly assist other makers going through the same explorations. The Dragonskin 30 results look great!
8 October 2010, 3:40 pmAnonymous:
In case anyone’s curious about what the casting mold looks like, you can check out these photos:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/stevecooley/4622423038/
8 October 2010, 6:41 pmhttp://www.flickr.com/photos/stevecooley/4622423158/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/stevecooley/4622423190/
Monolithic button array! « seqr of knowledge:
[...] you’re really interested in how I make my silicone buttons, I wrote an extensive article on my fine art blog about it. Check it out! blog [...]
8 October 2010, 11:49 amJason:
Nice,
8 October 2010, 7:07 pmLooks like the Dragon Skin 30 did the job! That Sorta Clear 40 can be tough to work with, the Sorta Clear 18 is a bit lower viscosity but is softer.
I am going to pass your post along to a friend of mine making interfaces for industrial control surfaces – very informative!
Anonymous:
awesome! I don’t really get to talk with people doing this sort of thing since I don’t do any of this professionally, so I’m happy to share what I’ve done right (occasionally) and wrong (most of the time).
8 October 2010, 7:09 pmBRAD:
YOU CAN ACHIEVE A VERY BUBBLE FREE CASTING WITHOUT VACUUM DEGASSING BY SIMPLY POURING THE MATERIAL SLOWLY IN A THIN STREAM; WILL NOT CLEAR ALL THE BUBBLES BUT MOST…
8 October 2010, 7:53 pmsteve cooley:
Indeed you can, thanks for the tip! Hey I was also wondering about a syringe of some sort. Some two-part epoxys come with a “mix tip” but I think something like that might work for silicone. Maybe not exactly like that, but some kind of way to direct the casting in a focused tip might be useful to me in this particular application. I’m just sure how I would go from the mixing container to a syringe. I tried a frosting bag but had pretty limited success.
8 October 2010, 8:12 pmCool toys and Gadgets » Blog Archive » Choosing a silicone for casting soft buttons:
[...] pal Steve Cooley, who manufactures the Beatseqr hardware performance controller, has posted the lab notes from his recent experiments with various silicone products for casting monolithic soft button [...]
8 October 2010, 5:29 pmBob:
With the Sorta Clear 40, could you have changed the ratio to provide more time for degassing and casting? Is one part a hardener?
9 October 2010, 1:40 amRobbie:
This looks very nice! I would like to know what switches you are using underneath the plastic.
9 October 2010, 1:45 amSKR:
For the clear stuff, did you try degassing in the mold in order to get more working time on the pour. If you made your own vacuum chamber, it’s pretty easy to make a custom chamber to fit the mold.
9 October 2010, 2:15 amSKR:
There are squeeze bottles, like the refillable red ketchup bottles at old school diners, that you can get at restaurant supply stores that would probably work really well for viscous materials. I have only ever used them for homemade BBQ sauce but now……hmmm.
9 October 2010, 2:39 amSKR:
FWIW, you can thin down the silicone from a home improvement store with xylene in order to get a pourable consistency for prototyping, etc.
9 October 2010, 2:41 amAnonymous:
Uh maybe? The instructions provided are pretty specific about the ratio, but I suppose you could try it to see what happens. Its pretty expensive, so i haven’t felt adventurous enough to try it myself. Smooth-on also sells a specific liquid that reduces the viscosity of their silicones, which I have purchased, but haven’t tried out yet. The side effect is that the final hardness is also reduced.
9 October 2010, 3:01 amAnonymous:
Sure! Jameco sells two kinds of LED tact buttons. Red and green. Not much different otherwise.
http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&pa=2076287&productId=2076287&keyCode=WSF&CID=GMC
http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&pa=2076261&productId=2076261&keyCode=WSF&CID=GMC
9 October 2010, 3:05 amAnonymous:
I did indeed degas with a home made chamber. I should make a new post about how I put mine together. You’re right, it was pretty easy to put together!
9 October 2010, 3:06 amAnonymous:
Great idea! What I found is that when I tried using cake recording tips and a baggie, I thought cleanup was going to be a nightmare, but just let it cure and then you can peel it off pretty easily. I’m sure a ketchup bottle would work the same way.
9 October 2010, 3:17 amAnonymous:
I’ll have to think about that. Since this part is for a human interface, I’d want to make sure the xylene was safe, but maybe that’s what the official thinner I bought is. Thanks for the tip!
9 October 2010, 3:19 amEvan Zalys:
Try shin-etsu ke-1310st. It NEEDS powerful degassing, it’s quite hard but super high quality. What’s neat is that if you give it a proper degassing, the remaining bubbles will just fold back into solution and you’ll get a crystal clear casting.
9 October 2010, 9:02 amsteve j:
I’m about to try the same with some Smooth-on Mold Max 27T today, but I need to re-mill my mold as I did cut it in wax first but I found cut surface to be a bit flaky and rougher than I thought. I melted the surface of the wax to smooth it out with a hot air soldering gun but while the sides are nice and smooth I’ve kinda messed up the end flats, so the tops of the buttons will look a bit wobbly. I shall try an aluminium mold next, but really get on the case with de-gassing also.
9 October 2010, 10:24 amChoosing a silicone for casting soft buttons - machine quotidienne:
[...] pal Steve Cooley, who manufactures the Beatseqr hardware performance controller, has posted the lab notes from his recent experiments with various silicone products for casting monolithic soft button [...]
9 October 2010, 5:46 amJedwards123321:
Excellent, EXCELLENT write up! Please DO give us a similar high-quality write up about your home made degasser. Even some pictures and a quick note would do to start. Thanks!
9 October 2010, 3:22 pmSKR:
Thats probably because cake bags are silicone impregnated fabric.
9 October 2010, 3:33 pmSKR:
Xylene isn’t the nicest stuff in the world, but I’m pretty sure it all offgasses before the final cure. I have used xylene thinned silicone in aquariums for years without any ill effect on the fish.
9 October 2010, 3:36 pmisobot:
Degassing works well for removing most of the trapped air but in the casting industry it is usually followed by placing the mold/silicone in a pressure chamber at around 50 psi to compress the remaining bubbles. It might not seem logical but the remaining bubbles are compressed to the point that they cannot be seen. I would never cast with out a pressure pot, it practically guarantees perfect parts. you can pick up inexpensive pressure pots at places like harbor freight or convert an old paint pressure pot by removing the siphon and adding gauge and relief valve.
11 October 2010, 8:28 amKC8RWR:
It’s a pretty common ingredient of spray paints. I would avoid inhaling/touching it as much as possible while wet but wouldn’t worry about it when it is cured.
12 October 2010, 5:05 pmKC8RWR:
What about degassing in the mold though? Sounds like you degassed and then poured it into the mold right? What happens if you pour it in the mold and then degass it mold and all?
12 October 2010, 5:07 pmAnonymous:
Great question! When you degas silicone, as you’re probably aware, all the tiny bubbles grow and grow and grow until the pop (or you run out of capacity to create a vacuum) so as a result, the silicone foams up and increases in physical volume. My tests in degassing in the mold went ok, but I found that because of my tiny mold cavities, sometime big bubbles still couldn’t escape, even with a vacuum. So what I experienced was a big foamy mess in my mold, and then a decreased volume in the mold once the vacuum was released due to some foaming out of the mold.
It’s all a big balancing act between getting the silicone into all the corners and getting as few bubbles as possible, while keeping in mind that you have about 20 minutes from the second you start mixing the material. Maybe my DIY vacuum chamber isn’t powerful enough to do the job in the 3 minutes it “should” take for all of the necessary operations to happen in the amount of time the silicone has before it’s starts to set up.
12 October 2010, 5:45 pmRsmith2995:
If you need clear buttons- hard, use Cast-O-Lite casting resin- you can add in resin many colors or blends for unique colors. You need no degassing for this resin.
13 October 2010, 11:22 amRichard:
I’ve tried degassing and the compressing silicone and found that the pressure actually caused more bubbles than if I just degassed. So now, I just degass the silicone. I use pressure for casting the resin. I degass parts a and b separately then mix and pressurize. I’ve tried degassing the resin mixed and foams up on me.
10 November 2010, 7:45 pmRichard:
Edit function isn’t working for me. What I meant to say is that I get a perfect silicon mold by just degassing the mold and I skip the pressure which seems to reintroduce air into the silicone.
10 November 2010, 7:50 pmRyan Ricks:
Have you tried two batches? A small batch that you can brush on as a very thin skin watching for bubbles and eliminating them, let it get tacky, then fill in the rest with your larger, second batch (degassed if you like).
21 December 2010, 4:47 pmTransparent Interface : Body Interface:
[...] http://www.sc-fa.com/blog/2010/10/07/silicone-rubber-test-results-and-comparison/ [...]
25 December 2010, 11:02 pmAnonymous:
Right, this makes sense to me. What I’ve read is that pressure works well for rigid casting mediums, but for silicone, degassing is sufficient.
11 January 2011, 10:11 pmMAKE | Choosing a silicone for casting soft buttons:
[...] pal Steve Cooley, who manufactures the Beatseqr hardware performance controller, has posted the lab notes from his recent experiments with various silicone products for casting monolithic soft button [...]
7 October 2012, 3:00 pm